More About David Anders

If you would like David to speak to your group, please contact.

Growing up in the Presbyterian Church (PCA), Dr. Anders attended a Protestant college and seminary. During his Ph.D. studies in Reformation History, David became persuaded of the truth of the Catholic Faith (read more here). He entered the Church in 2003, along with his wife, Jill, and (now) five children.

Education:
B.A. Wheaton College (1992)
M.A. Trinity Evangelical Divinity School (1995)
Ph.D. University of Iowa (2002)

72 thoughts on “More About David Anders

  1. John Simonich - January 28, 2017

    Oops, sorry for the mis-spelling (typos) in my previous post. I don’t see a way to edit and correct it.

  2. John Simonich - January 28, 2017

    Hello Dr. Anders,

    I have watched every single episode, to date, of your EWTN Called To Communion show…which has a YouTube playlist consisting of 231 episodes, at the time I write this. You have been a huge influence on my in taking my Catholic Faith more seriously, and to study theological works, both contemporary and historical, as well as the Early Fathers (via Jurgens). You truly have a gift in living up to Peter’s words:
    ” Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence.”

    I was re-watching your conversion story (which I must have watched 4 times) with Marcus Grodi on his “The Journey Home” Program. I believe this was filmed in 2010. While you obviously are under no obligation to answer this (if this is too personal)…I was wondering if you may have been ill, or was recovering from an illness, at the time of that filming. You looked unusually thin and underweight, compared to your very healthy appearance in your Called to Communion episodes, beginning in 2015. Where you just scrawny when you were “younger”, and now have gotten in much better shape, lol. Just curious, and concerned that you may have been battling a health issue back in 2010. Cheers, and God Bless. I look forward to each and every one of your Called To Communion episodes, and hope you continue bringing us your wonderful scholarly Apologetics and defense of our Faith, delivered with your usual grace, charity and gentleness. I am certain you have played a key role in converting many of our separated brothers and sisters in Christ, back to the fullness of Christ’s Church, the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Cheers, John.

  3. Gordon Dalbey - October 16, 2016

    My own faith journey has taken me from Reform Protestant to Harvard Divinity School, to pastoring at United Church of Christ, Presbyterian , and charismatic Vineyard church congregations in Los Angeles. I taught at two Catholic boys’ high schools (Chicago, Nigeria) and have published widely in the Catholic press (Catholic digest, America, St Anthony Messenger, The Priest, and others). My first book Healing the Masculine Soul pioneered the Christian men’s movement in 1988 and is still a bestseller. My journey allowed me to appreciate and affirm several biblically certified ways of meeting Jesus, and I tell this story in my book Broken by Religion, Healed by God: Restoring the Sacramental, Evangelical, Pentecostal, Social Justice Church–which I think you would appreciate. If so, let me know your address and I’ll send it to you as a gift.

  4. Madison Hall - August 3, 2016

    Hello Dr. Anders,

    I recently viewed the story of your conversion on an episode of the journey home with Marcus Grodi and heard that you wrote your dissertation on the life and theology of John Calvin. I find Calvin very interesting personally and was wanting to know if you didn’t mind sending me a copy to read. I find reformation history very edifying and interesting, particularly the life and times of John Calvin. I’d love to read and see what perspectives you had concerning him.

    So, if it’s alright, do you mind letting me hold a copy?

    Thanks

  5. Roberto - July 4, 2016

    Dear Mr. Anders,
    I listen to your show on EWTN Radio as often as I can, I find the information very valuable.
    While I was listening I heard a question similar to one I have. My wife and I have been practicing NFP since we got married. The decision at the time was primarily for medical reasons rather than religious. However, our relationship with God and between us has significantly improved since the time we started our journey together. Also, my wife has received 2 kidney transplants and I am very happy to say that after 11 years of marriage she is currently 27 weeks pregnant with our first baby. We understand the benefits of NFP although probably not all. I recently traveled to a place (had to go, it was my sisters wedding) where the CDC was advising of potential risks for Zika, which is the reason my wife did not go to the wedding. We have been practicing abstinence since I got back from the wedding, but am wondering if the use of condoms would be permissible in this case, since the intent has nothing to do with avoiding a pregnancy and would only be for the health of the unborn baby. Is there any information you can provide me, either for or against, so that a well informed decision can be made?

    Thank you in advance for your time and help.

    Sincerely,

    Roberto

  6. JOE MARTINO - June 24, 2016

    On Friday, June 24 you mentioned that the Gospel’s rich man was CERTAINLY IN HELL. Pope Benedict’s Spe Salvi (para 44 ff) disagrees with you and infers he’s in purgatory. I also used to think the parable indicated absolutely that Lazareth was hell, but now I’m not so sure after reading this Encyclical, I’m not so certain. Maybe an explanation on the air would be a neat thing to do. Thanks for all your excellent apologetics. God bless.

  7. Jessica Daubar - June 7, 2016

    Hi,

    I love your show ! I value your opinion when it’s come to catholic teachings . I wanted to see if Would you recommend the book Holy sex by Gregory Popcack? Does he teach the faith correctly ?

  8. James Ball - April 26, 2016

    Dear Dr. Anders:

    I have found you story and writings to be very helpful in my attempts to evangelize non-Catholics who I come in contact with. Recently someone I work with gave me a book to read. It is titled “Lost Christianities” by Bart D. Ehrman. I have read part of the book, but am not sure of the point he is trying to make.

    It sounds like he is trying to say that the Catholic Church evolved, or survived, out of a number of, or group of “Christian” religions (if that makes any sense). Some of these religions were Christ-less religions, whatever that means.

    Any comments you could make about the book would be appreciated.

    God bless.

    James Ball.

  9. Dennis Kudlak - January 13, 2016

    When we transition from the old to the new year it gives us a chance to measure ourselves. What should our religious view of life bring to believers this year that could change our behavior?

    Blessings,

    Captain Dennis Kudlak

  10. Dave Bronstein - November 15, 2015

    We enjoy hearing you. We are non-Christian but still interested in what people believe. You are one of the most intelligent and articulate speakers out there. Much appreciated in a world marked by strident vulgarity everywhere you go.

  11. Nigel - October 13, 2015

    Hello. Just came across your site and have been reading your article, “”Not by Faith Alone” . I found it interesting but ask you to at least consider the following.
    What if James is deliberately using such a phrase because he knows what Paul is preaching? What Paul speaks about in terms of “new life in Christ” James deliberately emphasises the same but puts it in terms of “effects”.
    In addition the idea of righteousness is held together in the “already, not yet” scheme of things. Righteousness is an eschatological declaration and the new Spirit life will be” vindicated” at the end. However, it is also a declaration for now, as Luke 18 vv9-14 show. The man goes down from the temple, (after looking to the sacrifice of the lamb at the hour of incense), and Jesus says he is “justified”, (see Ken Bailey on this).
    Surely we need to hold both in a kind of tension.

    Thanks

  12. Jamie B - September 28, 2015

    “Christ Did Not Die for the Pope to be Glorified” — C.H. Spurgeon
    Getting hit with this a lot this week.
    Don’t think that is written anywhere that Catholics have ever said that.
    My initial response is:
    “Who would have thought that a Baptist is not a fan of the Pope”
    I would like to add a little more meat to it thought…
    Any Ideas?

    Jamie B.
    Milford, MA

  13. Mary - September 10, 2015

    How do I respond to a question someone asked on Labor Day? Is there a private email? I do not want my name used.

    1. David Anders - September 11, 2015

      You can always email me privately: calvin2catholic@gmail.com

      Thanks!

      David

  14. Becky - August 5, 2015

    Just wanted to thank you for all of your research and outreach – I am a person deeply interested in all of these things that Christians debate, and that all Christians, if they love their God (and desire to live in truth, beyond simply obeying the communities that they find themselves in), eventually end up contemplating. But I do not have as much access to the deep and insightful writings that a scholar does, nor the time to pour over them as I would like, so I thank you for bringing these things to the rest of us!

  15. Bernadette Winkler - July 20, 2015

    Hello David
    I have just recently begun listening to EWTN and your show Call to Communion. Listening to your show has made me even more proud to be a Catholic. Thank you for your strong witness to our faith and teachings.

    I have a close friend who is also Catholic, but believes that gay marriage is a good thing civilly. Any arguments that I propose re the family and the children against gay marriage is countered with that being a religious opinion and we should keep a separation of church and state. How do I respond to this?

  16. James White - July 16, 2015

    I am a conservative evangelical protestant. I would like to know why I should leave it to become Roman Catholic. I have a Catholic friend who tells me Protestants are going to hell. I know that is also taught by a Catholic Ministry called : “The Vortex”. Is it true that the Pope hosted and prayed with Muslim Leaders in Rome recently? Doesn’t he call them brothers? I know on the video: “Catholicism : Crisis Of Faith”, it states how the Pope attends the Parliament of World religions where leaders of false religions take turns praying to their false God. I know Protestants were there but they would be Liberal protestant denominations, not Conservative or Fundamentalist denominations. I wonder if the Pope told any of these people they were going to hell? I think God would be offended if he did pray with them to their false Gods. To me that seems liberal. I did listen to a message by Scott Hahn about why he left Protestantism to become Catholic. One of his points did not make sense to me. He said Catholics honor Mary because the Bible states to Honor your father and mother. That verse in Exodus is referring to my mother who gave birth to me. Mary, the mother of Jesus did not exist when that commandment was given to man. I would appreciate a reply to these questions. Thank you very much.

  17. ron - July 14, 2015

    I am new, in search of a better term, in attempting to evangelize the truth of Christ’s Church. As someone who is closely associated with a Baptist family, I’ve come to hearing their non-Catholic appreciations … which led me to checking them out.

    As a consequence, I came to seeing just how Biblical and truthful is the Catholic faith, and quite otherwise is the Baptist/Protestant. Gaining as I did, a grasp of the apologetics which I’d read, and having my own, if I dare to say, insightful ways of describing such, I decided to write a book with the premise that faithful of Christianity need to become one; as Christ commands. Though, more than any reason, I’ve written it on behalf of reaching out to the Baptist family and their pastor with whom I have contact.

    The book is titled: ‘That We Be One’. I wish to send it to you, that some of what is written in it may be helpful to you in your own evangelizing quest, and as well, and likely more so, you may have advice or be of help in promoting what is written of in this book (I care little for the making of any money – Ha, I’ve sent an amount approaching a $1000 worth to many).

    Thus too, do I ask for a mailing address to share it with you.

  18. steve borne - July 10, 2015

    hi dr anders…………..have a question for you,ok
    adam and eve were created around 5000 yrs ago or so,,,,,,,,,
    neandertholl man was around 100000 yra ago……….
    why do modern humans have 10 % neandertholl dna in us
    can you explain this to me,,,,,,,,,,

  19. Nina Hancharik - June 16, 2015

    Please add me to email list for new posts.

  20. Am I in a State of Grace - May 14, 2015

    Mr. Anders,
    I have listened to your program for years and I highly respect your opinion. I hope you can find the time to answer my question since it is bearing on my soul.

    I am 50 years old and recently went to confession, spending a hour and one-half with my confessor to expel a list of 8 sheets of mortal sins I had acquired over the past 35 years. When I went down the list, I confessed a sin on my list, but another current sin which I have stopped doing, (possible mortal sin) came to mind. I have been paying a handyman with cash and I assume he is probably not paying taxes on the money. I even said once to the handyman the cash would help him at the end of the year. Since I am assuming he is not paying taxes, I’m not sure if my sin was mortal or venial. I spoke to my confessor who is being transferred out of the country in a few weeks and he said, if I was not sure about the seriousness of the sin, then it is venial. He states my excruciating confession is valid and I should not worry. My conscious has been striking me the past day and I am not sure what my status is. I’m even afraid to go to communion. What is your thoughts on this unique situation.

    1. David Anders - May 15, 2015

      Dear Sir,

      Thank you for your question. As I understand it, The obligation to pay taxes falls on the handyman, not you. You are not responsible for his behavior. You do have a moral obligation to follow the nations employment laws, but I am not aware that you are violating any of them.

      Furthermore, not every infraction of the civil law is a mortal sin (or even a venial sin). Mortal sins are only those that involve a gross violation of human dignity – an egregious theft, for instance, that does serious harm to a person’s well being, or a calumny that ruins their reputation, murder, adultery, apostasy, fornication, and so forth. There are even occasions when we have a moral obligation to disobey civil law – when the law asks us to contravene the moral law, for instance. Put your mind at ease. And, you might benefit from looking into Scrupulous Anonymous.

      Thank you,

      David

      1. Am I in a State of Grace - May 15, 2015

        David, I really appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule to help me. After reading your response and reflecting upon my situation, my conscious is at ease and I agree with you and my confessor. My heart after confession went from feeling like that of a lion, to being deflated with erroneous despair, to now being the size of a lion, again. You and your family will be in my prayers. You made a difference for me.

        Sincerely,

        Donald

  21. ron bianco - April 13, 2015

    I am new, in search of a better term, in attempting to evangelize the truth of Christ’s Church. As someone who is closely associated with a Baptist family, I’ve come to hearing their non-Catholic appreciations … which led me to checking them out.

    As a consequence, I came to seeing just how Biblical and truthful is the Catholic faith, and quite otherwise is the Baptist/Protestant. Gaining as I did, a grasp of the apologetics which I’d read, and having my own, if I dare to say, insightful ways of describing such, I decided to write a book with the premise that faithful of Christianity need to become one; as Christ commands. Though, more than any reason, I’ve written it on behalf of reaching out to the Baptist family and their pastor with whom I have contact.

    The book is titled: ‘That We Be One’. I wish to send it to you, that some of what is written in it may be helpful to you in your own evangelizing quest, and as well, and likely more so, you may have advice or be of help in promoting what is written of in this book (I care little for the making of any money – Ha, I’ve sent an amount approaching a $1000 worth to many).

    Thus too, do I ask for a mailing address to share it with you.

    ron

  22. Irlei Geraldo da Silva - April 9, 2015

    David Anders, Christ’s Peace and Hail Mary, Mother of God and ours. It’s a great honor to send you this message, I’m from a little town in Brazil, and I wait you can help me to take some doubts about the history of protestantism, chiefly their heretic founders, though I’m writing a thorough book about them. Thank you and God blesses you. Save Rome!!!

    Irlei Geraldo da Silva

  23. Bob Hetrick - April 8, 2015

    Today ,4/8 at 1:50pm. [by radio] you forgot the name of a book re Eucharistic Miracles. One by this title is by Joan C. Cruz; & another is EUCHARISTIC MIRACLES OF THE WORLD with 140 miracles with pictures
    More details re each please search google etc. [ps: typing is very hard for me…post surgery so this is too brief.]

    Thanks, Bob

  24. Oliver Bardin - March 9, 2015

    Hello Dr. Anders,
    I’ve enjoyed listening to your conversion story, and reading your articles on occasion. A few months back I heard you on Catholic answers where you fielded questions from non Catholics about Catholicism. One caller asked in so many words, “If Catholicism is the true faith, than why are Protestant countries more prosperous than Catholic countries?” I think he then went on to compare England or Norway to some country like Honduras, but I don’t remember the specific example. I thought your answer was good — essentially that British Common Law is based on Catholic tradition, as is all European culture. The one point that I would have added to the answer, and perhaps you might agree with me on this, is that the gentleman caller was really comparing apples to oranges. Luxembourg and the Republic of Ireland are both very prosperous Catholic countries, the prosperity of Ireland being if anything hampered by British colonialism. Malta, by some measures the most devoutly Catholic country in Europe, enjoys a high standard of living. Meanwhile, Kenya and Jamaica which are largely Protestant are not as economically or socially stable as the above mentioned Catholic countries. I think his question was flawed in it’s premise, though. If material wealth is the soul test of religious truth, Kuwait and Qatar would have a strong claim to possessing the true faith.

  25. Bill Redmond - February 10, 2015

    Can you tell me the name of the Saint who was a successful business man you mentioned in today’s Call to Communion show? I’d like to add him to the saints I ask to intercede for me and my business.

    Right now I have Mary, Joseph, Sylvester of Assisi (business man, converted through encounter with St Francis), St. Bernardine of Siena (patron of advertisers and advertising), Blessed Louis and Zelie Martin (parents of St Therese the little flower; small business owners) and their daughter St Therese.

    1. David Anders - February 10, 2015

      St. Homobonus.

      Thanks for listening.

      -David

  26. Fr j - December 18, 2014

    I know of no other way to let you know that iTunes podcast via ewtn are Co. Inc across as 1 minute in length & thus not downloading properly.

  27. Daniel - December 6, 2014

    I was in Billy Graham in its prime,going soul winning,believed in pretribulation.
    I started to read Luther work went to that and then went to PCA .I wanted to go to these church’s because they we’re suppose to believe in perpetual virginity,baptize infants,opposed pretribulation(Darby theory).
    I started to go to these hope to be early Reformers,but I did see nor hear any of the above mentioned,esp.baptism of infants and perpetual virginity.I felt as if I never left my little fundamental a Baptist church.
    It was filled with legalism,to the hilt.I was taught the Catholic Church was bad and I fell to the wayside being passed among denominations.I fell into sin a very long time .God being a Baptist,Luther,Calvinism,Once saved always saved,Universal Atonement,Limited Atonement,other churches say not once saved always saved,infant baptism,non infant baptism.
    After years of living a life style that I shouldn’t had,I went into a Catholic Church got a good book on The Virgin Mary showing she is the New Eve, the New Ark of The Covenant,etc .My life changed .I also read other teachings of the church doctrines,Early Fathers.
    It has been 10 months ,I have a great Catholic friend who remembers me as a Protestant we communicate almost everyday sending things to each other about the faith.
    I am from Delaware .I would like to meet other converts in my area I don’t know where to start . Any suggestions.I was baptized Catholic, left and came back.The Virgin Mary reeled me in Dan Thanks for any input

  28. Ron - December 5, 2014

    Hi David,

    I’m looking for an essay written by Fr. Richard John Neuhaus that contains 10 things Catholics and Protestants can do together. Have you heard of this paper? It came out of Evangelicals and Catholics together. I’ve searched FirstThings.com and Google; but to no avail.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Ron

    In Christ you are my Sons.

  29. […] Abao OlarioDecember 30, 2013 at 2:15 am David, maybe the weakening of your faith may not be because of lack of understanding in the Church […]

  30. […] BibboNovember 18, 2013 at 2:29 am I have read all your articles in One Voice this year, and frequently told myself, “I have to tell […]

  31. Louise - October 20, 2014

    Hi David, I am 17 years old and I saw you on Women of Grace on EWTN. On there you mentioned that in your dissertation you discussed the Reformers opposition to saints, pilgrimages etc. I am in my final year of school and I am doing an independent dissertation-like essay for the whole year. I chose my question because I am fascinated by it and want to know the ins and outs of the reformation as well as use the knowledge I will acquire as a form of Catholic apologetics. Anyway, my question is, “To what extent was the European Reformation in the years 1492-1603 solely a religious movement.” I was wondering, if at all possible, you could either send me your bibliography or perhaps the dissertation itself or exerts from it if you don’t feel comfortable in sending it in its entirety. I have given my email address above. Thank you so much. Louise Kelly

  32. Gerard - August 11, 2014

    Thank you.

  33. Gerard Alamo - August 10, 2014

    Dear Dr. Anders,
    I listen to you regularly on Open Line and I am really inspired by your knowledge and humility how you answer the questions. My name is Gerard, married to Vivian with 4 kids living in Melbourne, Australia. I am a cradle Catholic and the main radio broadcastors here in Australia is Vision Radio with United Christian Broadcastors. I have recently put up posts on their facebook page, quoting 1 Tim 3:15, talking about Jesus’ true prescence in the Bible, suggesting books to read like Henry Grey Graham’s and Gary Mitucha’s books about thr bible.. Do you think that is appropriate? It brings a lot of joy defending my faith what does it take to be an apologist? Thanks God Bless
    Gerard.

    1. David Anders - August 11, 2014

      Gerard,

      Thank you for your kind message. I do think it is appropriate to dialogue with non-Catholics about the truth claims of the Catholic Church. I think anyone can be an apologist to a certain extent. If you learn one aspect of your faith very well, you can dialogue about that one aspect. If you know two things, talk about two things, etc. I think the most useful topic to broach with Protestants is the authority question. What authority did Jesus establish for the transmission of the Christian faith? You can hardly study that question too much if you want to dialogue with Protestants.

      Thanks again,

      David

  34. Charlie Salcedo - August 7, 2014

    My Calvinist friend debated with me that Pope Francis was wrong to invite the Israeli & Palestinian presidents to pray for peace. I tried to reach out to other Catholics to see if we are on the wrong side of the fence of this debate. I was shock to hear one Catholic say my Calvinist friend has more of a grasp on Christianity then I. I tried to reach out to Patrick Madrid but didn’t get much feedback. I spoke to Fr. Mitch Pacwa on Open Line, about this, but time didn’t allow for us to get in depth on this topic. I pray you will get time to read the dialogue & hopefully give me some feedback on this topic. Thanks in advance. In Christ….

    Thoughts?
    http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5468935?utm_hp_ref=uk

    Yup, That’s A Palestinian Flag At The Vatican
    Unprecedented scenes played out at the Vatican on Sunday as Islamic prayers were held for the first time ever at the seat of Catholicism. Pope francis hopes the event, attended by the presidents of Israel and Palestine, will “re-create a desire,…
    HUFFINGTONPOST.CO.UK

    (Charlie Salcedo) Abner , thanks for asking. That’s in the public St. Peter’s square, where anyone can wave any flag. I’m sure there was an Israeli flag somewhere in the crowd as well, if I was there I’ll wave a Puerto Rican flag. LoL. We also have to take consideration the event that was going on. Israeli and Palestinian presidents were there & there was a three part prayer was being offered up to God by the three Abrahamic religions. Said in Hebrew, Arabic and Italian & I for one took time out, to say a prayer for the cause, which is peace in the Holy Land. I think it was good it was during Pentecost because even though Judaism & Islam don’t accept The Holy Spirit as the 3rd Person of the Triune God, peace in that region can only come about through the Grace of God, & what better time than Pentecost. That was a historic day, I prayer it will be a fruitful one too.
    June 10 at 5:49pm · Edited · Like · 1

    (Abner Gonzalez) So three views or beliefs on who God is, which god were they praying to for this “peace”.
    June 12 at 8:51am · Like

    (Abner Gonzalez) Its concerning especially that this would be done, so called, in the spirit of Pentecost. Because as we know the one true God was worshiped and exalted on that day when the Holy Spirit made his presence known. So the very fact that they deny the Holy Spirit as God should cause restraint from fellowship in prayer with those who deny Him.
    June 12 at 8:56am · Like

    (Charlie Salcedo) They are praying to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Joseph, also you & I, I would argue.

    I see your concern & I can see how you come to that conclusion.

    Now try to see it from this angle. Yes they deny the Triune God as we know it, but they agree on God The Father, YAHWEH, who is the 1st Person of the One true God. Whether they accept it or not, if they petition The Father, they also petition The Son & The Holy Spirit because you & I know they are One.

    I also know one of the sins of the acient Jewish people (the sins of King Jeroboam) was allowing foreign gods beside the One true God. But I would say this is not the same thing because they ( the Israeli and Palestinian presidents & Pope Francis) are uniting to pray to the God of Abraham & not different gods like the sins of the OT. As you know the Jewish people descended from Isaac & it’s widely accepted that Arabic people are decendants of Ishmael. Which can be read in 1 Chronicles 1:28

    I also would like to point out that you said, “the very fact that they deny the Holy Spirit as God should cause restraint…” But that’s not what Jesus would do. We are called to wins souls over for Christ through love & fellowship. It was by love & fellowship through The Holy Spirit that the early Christians were able to convert so many Jews & many more Gentiles, all who denied the One true God(Father, Son & Holy Spirit) to restrain from fellowship”The Way” / the Church. They didn’t restrain from fellowship or friendship with the early converts because they deny God, but on the contrary the loved & interacted more in order to save these lost souls. It’s like what Mother Teresa did in Calcutta, India. She did charity for countless people of Hindu & the Buddist religion. She opened the 1st shelter in NYC for gays affected by AIDS. She didn’t tell them, “Only if you accept the Triune God, then I’ll feed you & give you shelter /fellowship”. She didn’t say that because she viewed everyone as a child of God regardless if they believe or agree with her or not.
    I pray that the Pope’s efforts bear fruit, by praying & fellowship with these two, it will be a form of evangelizing them. Pope Francis said himself something like, “Peace of this nature can only come by The Holy Spirit.” He’s been talking a lot about the gifts of The Holy Spirit in his daily speeches in St Peter’s Square.

    Abner, I would like to point out Colossians 4:5-6
    June 12 at 11:09am · Like

    (Abner Gonzalez) I agree that we are to love and share the gospel with non believers and that may manifest itself in different wand some may consider that fellowship. But that’s not what was hoing on here, they were worshiping their gods together.
    June 12 at 11:30am · Edited · Like

    (Abner Gonzalez )
    1 John 2:23
    No one who denies the Son has the Father.
    Both Jews and Muslims deny the son so they can not be praying to the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob
    June 12 at 1:05pm · Like

    (Charlie Salcedo) Abner thanks for giving me a chance to express my thoughts, I always enjoy our discussions. You give good points & give me a lot to think about. And you are correct to point out 1 John 2:23. Because certain gnostic s denied that the earthly Jesus was the Christ; to deny knowledge of The Son is to deny The Father, since only through The Son has God been fully revealed. Jewish & Muslim people would fall in that category of those who deny the Deity of Christ. But since we know because of Holy Scripture has reveals it to us in John 14:8-9. But since we know The Good News, it’s up to us to reveal the fullness of God in The Holy Trinity to them. We need a good starting point, & I for one think the fact that all three different faiths profess & acknowledge God, The Father as Creator who is the 1st Person of The Triune God. Here we have common ground & the chance to evangelize in order to reveal the fullness the true living God. I think what Pope Francis was doing was no different of what we read Saint Paul doing in Acts17:23. He was evangelizing by being a witness of Christ through love & fellowship. As well he was trying to be a peace maker (read Matt 5:9). Now the only way ANYONE can accept Jesus as Lord is through The Holy Spirit (read 1 Corinthians 12:3). What better time for The Holy Spirit to be revealed & poured on among them than Pentecost? Which marks when The Holy Spirit was poured on the Apostles through Christ. Although they lack God The Father because they deny Christ, they still acknowledge Him as God & that’s who all three were worshiping. I also would like to point out that the Eastern Othodox, Patriarch Bartholomew was among them praying. I guarantee when the Pope & the Patriarch prayed they pray to The Father, through The Son, in The Holy Spirit. And when two or more are gathered in His Name The Lord is there (read Matt 18:20) He didn’t say “if two are gathered in My Name, I’m there but if two more are gathered that deny me I won’t be there.” The way The Church should view the Jewish people is “the first to hear the Word of God” The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christians religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. From the Jewish race a Savior was born who is Christ Jesus. I think you know that the Jewish faith is the faith of the Old Testament, & they are God’s chosen people. The way The Church’s relationship with the Muslims can be viewed like this, “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the One, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day. Before Mohamed wrote the “so called” Qur’an, He began to spend a lot of time talking with the Christians (I heard a Jesuit Priest but no way to verify)and Jews (Rabbi’s)of Arabia, asking questions and learning their stories. He would frequently retreat to a cave on Mount Hira, a few miles north of Mecca, where he would contemplate life and the problems of Arabian society. The Church feels God wants all men to be saved & He loves all men even atheist & even let’s the sun rise for the wicked(Read Matt 5:45). The Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by Him who enlightens all men that they may have life.”
    June 12 at 8:36pm · Like · 1

    (Abner Gonzalez) Common grace was given to all but effectual grace was given at the cross only to the elect or the many as in revelation 5. I’m sure you know that I affirm the doctrines I grace and the five sola’s.

    If you do not acknowledge the son you can not worship the same god as those who do its a different god regardless how you look at it so yes I do believe that all these coming together was wrong but then again at the council of Trent the Rcc made it clear that they don’t believe that we are saved by grace alone throgh faith alone in Christ alone so they have a different gospel so I guess it really doesn’t make difference either way.
    June 13 at 1:02pm · Like

    (Charlie Salcedo) Once again you make good points & I’ll only be repeating myself in the previous responses I made earlier. You seem to over look the fact that they are praying to the 1st Person of The Holy Trinity, & yes Muslim & Jews lack God in His fullness because t…See More
    June 13 at 1:23pm · Like · 1

    (Charlie Salcedo) Read Acts 17:23 & see how St. Paul used common ground in
    The Father to reveal the fullness of God.
    June 13 at 1:27pm · Like · 1

    (Abner Gonzalez) The areopogus was a place where the intellectuals and philosophers gathered to disscus the latest a greatest ideas, views, beliefs, etc. Paul went ( key word ) there to share the gospel as Christ commanded us all to do in Matt 28.
    Also having an alter for an unknown god is different than denying the one true God (one God three distinct persons coequal, coeternal and coexistent).
    For example if someone invites you into their home but says your wife and children can’t come in, I’m sure you’d be pretty upset and consider the invite extended to as meaningless. I realize this example is a far cry from what’s actually going on here but I’m sure you get the pic.
    June 13 at 1:58pm · Like

    (Charlie Salcedo) I gotta commend for your love for The Holy Trinity & I have to appreciate you taking offense to the fact they deny the doctrine of The Holy Trinity which is a doctrine establish by The Catholic Church along with the canon of Scripture (especially the canon of the New Testament). It would be nice for you to be in full Communion with the Church. You would make a great Catholic.

    I don’t think you see the parallel I’m trying to draw from Acts 17:23. St. Paul was among people who not only denied The Holy Trinity, but worshiped other gods & religions. He found a common groud in the Unknown God & revealed Him in full & made Him the Known God. Just like Pope Francis found common ground in The Father, who was a Known God to them, but by denile of The Son became Unknown to them. He is engaging them to pray to The Father & his envoking The Holy Spirit in order for God who was Unknow to them. to become Known. The way He can become Known is if they accept Jesus as Lord & the only way any Muslim or Jew can do this is through The Holy Spirit. So God in His entirety can be revealed to them. I know this sounds impossible to convert Muslims & Jews but through Christ, anything is possible.

    How would you suggest doing this? Aren’t we suppose to what Matt 28 tells us? What would you do?

    And I love your example & I totally get it. I would be upset at the limited invitation. But it’s a start in order for me to reveal my wife & children to the one who invited me & what they are missing by negelecting my entire family. But I would be offened.

    Do you even see my point at all? Or can you see how I come to my conclusion in this matter when it comes to Muslims & Jews needing to be saved by Christ?

    Abner how would you attempt to achieve peace & evangelizing Muslims & Jews?
    June 13 at 3:01pm · Like

    (Charlie Salcedo) You say this was a bad idea,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYzeRLhyAX0……See More
    Play Video
    Vaticano – 2014-6-15 – Pope prays with presidents of Israel and Palestine
    Pope Francis keeps his eyes on the Middle East. He brings together the presidents of Israel and Palestine at the Vatican Gardens for an evening of prayer. Du…
    June 17 at 12:05pm · Like · Remove Preview

    (Abner Gonzalez) By sharing the law and gospel with them- the law to reveal sin and the gospel as the means of salvation. Same as I would to anyone else
    June 17 at 2:03pm · Like

    (Charlie Salcedo) That’s a good answer, & that’s being a witness. There are many ways to witness, & that’s what Pope Francis was trying to do. The only differences is Pope Francis was not relying on his own power to evangelize & bring peace. It’s not by him they will recognize Jesus as Lord, but by the power of The Holy Spirit. He said it himself in this link I just posted, peace of this nature can only come through God. But that’s not what you are objecting to, your objections on at the thought that of a Christian, Jew & a Muslim would join in prayer to God. Which I can respect but… Well I’m not sure if they joined in prayer or said there prayers separate from each other. I do know it was a prayer said in Italian & Greek for the Christian interest , & Hebrew for the Jewish & Arabic for the Muslim. I pray God hears the Pope’s payers, & I join the Pope in praying for peace in the Holy Land.

  35. Dan Jewell - May 5, 2014

    I am a lifelong Protestant (42 years) and am very interested in evaluating what you have to say. My main issue with Rome is the Papacy and its being the genesis of the two major schisms (11th and 16th centuries) in church history. Do you have an article on the Papacy? Can you explain how the historic behavior of some of those holding the office was not an attempt to “lord it over others” as Jesus warned against? Was not the Bishop of Rome throughout the early centuries accorded a primacy of honor but not an infallible primacy of authority?
    Thank you

    1. David Anders - May 18, 2014

      Hi Dan,

      Your question presupposes a normative understanding of “schism.” What is schism? How do you know it when you see it? Is it “schism” when the PCA broke off from the PCUSA? Why? or Why not? Calvin thought the Anabaptists were schismatic because they were not in fellowship with the Reformed Church. Was he correct?

      You can only arrive at an understanding of schism in light of your definition of the Church. So, from a Catholic point of view, it is nonsensical to say that “the papacy fomented schism.” The Papacy is constitutive of the church’s unity. It is only in relation to the papacy that we can even define a schism.

      I have some discussion of the papacy in the article “Archbishop Minnerath on Rome, the papacy, and the East.”

      I would also direct you here:

  36. Terry Sarigumba - March 16, 2014

    Dear Dr. Anders,

    My cousin in the Philippines, Noli Vicedo, forwarded to me via Facebook the fascinating story of how you discovered the Catholic Church and entered the Church on November 16, 2003. Ironically, my son left his (my) Catholic faith a week before that date to join the Baptist church. He later said “I joined the Baptist church to follow a girl and now I follow God and lead a family.” I regret that he left the Catholic Church but rejoice that as a Baptist he is more religious than when he was a Catholic. But I don’t cease praying that someday, he will be back to our Church together with his wife and children. I’ll share with him your story; hopefully it will trigger his return to the true Church, the Catholic Church.

    Your story reminds me of the story of Steve Ray, a Baptist who became a Catholic after he studied the history of the Church and attended the Mass. You probably heard about Steve Ray’s story. If not, I can share with you a copy of that story.

    The book I wrote “The Distant Glow” has just been published by Authorhouse. In Chapter 3 and Chapter 10 of the book, I expound my faith in God and said that I express my faith in God within the Catholic Church because based on its theology, doctrines, practice and history, it’s the Church that provides me the means for salvation. Below is the link to my book:

    http://bookstore.authorhouse.com/AdvancedSearch/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=The%20Distant%20Glow

    Terry Sarigumba
    Brunswick, Georgia

  37. Richard Kluk - March 13, 2014

    Hi, I’d like permission to reproduce your journey to Catholicism for my 2 parishes and missoins.

  38. Mark Carney - March 10, 2014

    Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Without a doubt this is a touchy subject.

  39. Mark Carney - March 8, 2014

    I had the pleasure of listening to you on the Catholic Answers Podcast of March 3, 2014. A gentleman asked about all non-Catholics going to hell. You said that was a heresy called ‘Phenyism”. My atrocious phonetic spelling can’t find a reference to that anywhere with any of my creative spellings of the word.
    I’m looking for a clearer way of responding to people on this issue and this sounds like the perfect reference. Can you point me in the right direction and at least give me the correct spelling?

    Thanks,
    Mark

    1. David Anders - March 8, 2014
  40. Mike Keller - January 30, 2014

    David,
    I love your comments and your knowledge of the Catholic faith and the Protestant faith.
    Do you have a book I can buy? If you do not have a book, please write one or two!
    Thanks!
    Mike

  41. Tom Holahan - January 4, 2014

    Hi David,

    Just watched your appearance on the Journey Home and want to thank you for your articulate and insightful withness. God Bless you and yours for a happy and blessed new year.

    Tom H.

    1. David Anders - January 10, 2014

      Thanks Tom!

  42. Malcolm - January 4, 2014

    Thanks for putting together your own site. I look forward to reading your articles.
    I have been reading McGrath’s Iustitia Dei, and am fairly concerned how we have been sold a bill of goods on Reformed theology being a return to the true Augustinian view of justification / salvation by grace. However, Luther and Calvin were clearly mistaken; having assumed the one school of thought’s explanation of Augustine reflected and was underlying the whole. This reveals the Protestant claim to Augustinian faith a veneer, clinging to the terms, but emptied of his meaning; less so with old Lutheranism. But what is truly disturbing is Protestantism’s ignoring McGrath’s work in this area, and continued insistence of its faithfulness to Augustine!

    Next up: The Original Bishops, Office and Order in the First Christian Communities, by Alistair C. Stewart
    Scripture and Tradition, What the Bible Really Says, by Edith M. Humphrey.

    However, this does not resolve all my issues with Catholicism. That’s going to take some work, and perhaps some blind faith. For instance, accepting by blind faith that Councils and Popes that clearly believed their rulings were infallibly binding, loosing, and decreeing – based on their actions and statements – simply were not. They simply were not only by conveniently narrowly casting a modern definition to exclude them. In other words, the definition is not formed based on prior magisterial practice. It is formed based upon configuring a definition that allows the church to pass over previous authoritative magisterial decrees which contradict one other, or have factual problems. In denying those decrees the authority Popes and councils clearly assumed they had, the resulting definition assures the doctrine of an infallible magisterium can still be asserted.

    Another tactic is to assert a ex-Cathedra statement by a Pope was not ex-Cathedra because, even though it was made, published, and sent out, his untimely death allowed the archbishops to pull back full distribution of the decree. It is thus claimed not to have been a universal decree. Yet the decree itself stated its universal intent, and its initial sending out was with universal intent. It seems dishonest to claim it is not a universal decree, merely due to the failure of the archbishops and bishops to follow through. After all, does the failure of the church to proclaim the gospel to every nation, tribe, and tongue over the past 2000 years negate the validity of the gospel, or of the Great Commission?

  43. Stephen Abao Olario - December 30, 2013

    Dave please pray for my Mom to revert back to the Catholic Church. Thanks. Happy New Year! 🙂

  44. Stephen Abao Olario - December 30, 2013

    My comment was for Ken. Please correct. Thanks.

  45. Jean - December 29, 2013

    Hello David, I recently saw you on the Journey Home Program which I watch faithfully, however, I still
    find it difficult to accept the role Mary plays in the Catholic Church. It seems excessive to me, and I wish more than anything I was able to get over this hurdle. There is something about the rosary that attracts me, although I feel afraid to say it, because i feel inwardly that it is “wrong”.
    I was raised Catholic, left the church at about 17 years of age, in 1975, and have returned in 2009, but it has not been an easy road back. I often want to retreat back to protestant, born-again churches.
    Please help, if you can, I feel often like the Catholic church is filled with idol worship. 🙁

  46. Ben Dawkins - December 29, 2013

    David, my wife and I are moving from the PCUSA to the Catholic church, if all keeps going as we pray. We are now going to RCIA classes.

    David, we saw you on the “Journey Home” show and were very impressed with what we heard. I also read what you said to the person who asked “At what point am I a Christian?” Your answer was “when you are baptized” and you quoted Galations 3:27. How do we explain the fact that millions of people who are baptized do not follow him, do not claim him, and lead a life totally separate from him?

  47. Rachel Laughlin - December 29, 2013

    I just watched your appearance on EWTN’s JH and it answered questions that a Presbyterian friend and I have covered through the years. I lacked the words to answer some of her questions regarding transubstantiation and justification but you nailed them here. I sent her an email right away and offered to mail her the link to it. We are very close and she is rooted in her Calvinist faith, though a former Jew. She is a widow of one year, and I didn’t want to forward the link without asking her if she was interested. Your explanations are direct and rock solid. She’s still grieving terribly and hearing what you say could pull the rug out from under her if she is receptive. Do you think I’m over-sensitive to her feelings? Is there a way I can give her a “spoiler alert” about this video that will prepare her? Having lost her husband, then possibly her faith (yes, I think this video discussion between two ex-Presbyterians is that powerful) might be too much to bear. I’m not trivializing the fact that her discovery of our faith trumps feelings, but still I am so aware of the wounds of her loss.

  48. Dee - December 27, 2013

    My question is how can a baby who is baptized be considered a Christian when the baby did not make a decision to accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior? Thanks for your response.

  49. Elmer Gendrano - December 27, 2013

    I really appreciate your explanation on Catholic beliefs on Journey home. I am hoping to ask you some questions in the future about some texts on the bible which I don’t understand. God bless. Elmer

  50. Mario LaRocca - December 26, 2013

    At what point am I a Christian ?

    1. David Anders - December 27, 2013

      When you are baptized.

      “For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.” Galatians 3:27

  51. Dick Neves - December 24, 2013

    I just watched your appearance on the Journey Home, and you were superb. Your responses were lucid and meaty, giving the audience a wealth of factual information on Protestant perspectives and interpretations, for all to understand and ponder. This one of the best JH programs that I have seen for my level of knowledge, above the average because of my years of reading and studying Catholicism and the bible. I hope that Marcus has you back for another show in 2014.

    1. Fred Copeland - February 11, 2016

      Dick, I have never agreed with a person more than your comments about Dr. Ayres journey home program. That show should be on every Catholics must see list.

      Even Marcus made the comment that he had never heard the Catholic faith explains so clearly, and gentlemen all I can do is agree.

      I am going to order that his journey home CD so I can show it to all my friends.

      Thank you Dr. Anders for your superb expressions of the Catholic faith!

      Fred Copeland

  52. Jacqueline Y. - December 11, 2013

    Ken, you will find more about the Church Fathers in David Anders’ longer conversion story on the Coming Home Network website.

    http://chnetwork.org/2012/02/a-protestant-historian-discovers-the-catholic-church-conversion-story-of-a-david-anders-ph-d/

    Hope this helps. I also recommend Mike Aquilina’s book, The Fathers of the Church.

    http://www.amazon.com/Fathers-Church-Mike-Aquilina/dp/1612785611/ref=la_B001JPBSAG_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1386783408&sr=1-7

  53. Ken Sponburg - November 27, 2013

    David,

    I was baptized Catholic at a 11 and left the Church at 15 for Protestantism. I returned 5 years ago but my faith is weak. How does one know if the Catholic Church is true? How do you find out? Catholics say read the Church Fathers but some Protestants claim they teach Protestantism and some Protestants say they were heretics. How do you know for sure?

    1. Ed Graveline - December 24, 2013

      Ken,
      Here is how you know it is the true Church. Jesus lived for 33 years and told EVERYTHING to his Apostles. Not everything was put in the Bible, because there was no Bible in the first 300 years after Christ. In fact, the last line of the Gospel of John says that all the books of the world could not contain all that Jesus did. So, what Jesus said to the Apostles, those Apostles went out and had people follow them closely. These people are known as the Early Church Fathers. And they wrote everything the Apostles said down. And we can read it today. It tells us that there are 7 sacraments. They wrote that there are confessing of sins to a priest. They wrote there is the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. The wrote that the Bishop of Rome is in charge of the Church. In 107 AD, one of them wrote that the Church Jesus started is called “Catholic”. And the list goes on.

    2. Stephen Abao Olario - December 30, 2013

      David, maybe the weakening of your faith may not be because of lack of understanding in the Church and her Teachings but maybe coming from another source? Try to look in your psycho-emotional needs too? Maybe there is another need that longs satisfaction and Religion may not be the answer? Just thinking? I pray for you, amen! Happy new year! 🙂

  54. Peter Bibbo - November 18, 2013

    I have read all your articles in One Voice this year, and frequently told myself, “I have to tell this guy how much I appreciate his writing.” So here at the conclusion of the Year of Faith, I’ve finally gotten around to it. Thank you. You are in my view an evangelist as well as a personal inspiration. I grew up an lived most of my life in the northeast, and I’ve traveled all over the world, attending Mass in numerous countries, but my sense of Catholicism is naturally rooted in the U.S. I can identify with Catholics who find the Mass “boring” but that has always been an irrelevant term for me. I wasn’t looking for entertainment. My difficulty was that the Mass was unfulfilling. I still recall back in the day when the congregation prayed to the celebrant’s haircut a sermon about nickles. Nickles were no longer welcome in the collection basket. Dimes as a minimum, quarters on average were required. I believe it was Vatican II that exhorted the importance of homily, and that only ordained could deliver one. About 30 years later, I began to sense that homily was beginning to be a more fulfilling part of the Mass and I was grateful whenever a priest or deacon made an attempt to deliver a relevant and actionable teaching. I just pray it doesn’t take our Church another 30 years to get to the next level, whatever that may be.

    1. David Anders - November 25, 2013

      Dear Peter,

      Thank you so much for your kind words.

      -David

  55. Leo Sanchez - November 3, 2013

    I heard you comment on a question by a listener about how a number of Catholics are leaving the Mass because it is “boring” and are flocking to the more “entertaining” Protestant services. Your explanation of how the Mass was indeed more than what most Catholics understand was an excellent answer and I have been unable to find it in the archives.
    I have a son and a nephew who have issues with this question and need some help in answering both of them.
    Can you locate this program and answer? I also remember that you said some services actually hire a program director for the “entertainment” portion of their services. The singing and sometimes plays are really programmed to lure the weak in faith to these services which cannot come near offering what the Catholic Mass offers…..in particular the Eucharist.
    Hope you can answer me and help me with this discussion with my son and nephew.
    Thanks and God Bless
    Leo

    1. ucantfixstupid - October 23, 2014

      what do you mean??? the catholic mass — is boring becasue there is not spiritual anointing

      get real– it would be nice or Great– if you received a spiritual impartation — by going to a catholic mass–

      just like there are many non catholics — ministers who are not “anointed” by the Jesus and the Holy Spirit–

      but at least in those church assemblies — they are allowed spiritual decernment–

      to acknowledge the lack of spiritual impartation— not so at a catholic mass–
      you have to put up with the lack — of ministry spiritual anointing- or you might get a “mortal sin”

      and be a taker of the “real supernational presence” of the maraculas transsubstanation–

      Jesus sent me to study at bible colleges — where the real spiritual presence is–

      and met ministers who carried the anointing — catholic — not –so –much

      1. Storm Janaszak - August 5, 2015

        I learned the answer TODAY on an airing of a show on EWTN with David Anders! I sometimes have wondered the same thing – Why is the Catholic church so boring?Today I heard answers : Catholics go to mass to worship our Lord Jesus Christ. Catholics go to mass to be in communion with Christians all over the world. Catholics go to mass to be fed on the word of God and traditions that have been given to us from Christ and passed directly down to His disciples. Catholics go to mass to receive His body and blood in the sacrament of the Eucharist. Catholics who go to confession (Reconcilliation) know the feeling of God’s mercy in the sacrament of Confession. I don’t want to sound like an authority because I am not. I am a cradle Catholic that didn’t understand all of this a few years ago. I hopped all over the place looking for a fun church with fun people and a cool pastor to get me pumped up. I ran away from any pain or suffering and had no idea that the answer was all in my home – in the Catholic church. I now know my suffering brings me closer to my Lord Jesus who suffered for me.
        It does take quite a bit of discipline to really tune in to the mass sometimes, but when I prepare for mass by reading and reflecting of the Gospel before mass and making a true confession for the things I have done wrong, I can’t wait to sit and be with Jesus who is alive in the Eucharist. I wish I could describe the feeling. An example would be one of the prayers we recite each week — “Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy” — when I really think about these words it brings me to my knees.
        If I go to mass and look around at what people are wearing and let my thoughts run away from me, I too feel bored.
        One of my children recently went through some great difficulties. None of these difficulties were apparent on the outside. She looked beautiful and was very successful in the eyes of the world. But she was running away from pain and lonliness and using drugs to numb her suffering. She miraculously met some incredible Catholics at a critical juncture in her life. She was encouraged to give it all to the Lord at confession and attended daily mass. She didn’t believe at first that anything would change but it did! Her new Catholic friends brought her to RCIA where we learn about what Catholicism really is. She received the sacrament of confirmation. She now is living her life just to help others. She has so much joy!!! I can’t type fast enough to explain the miracles awaiting anyone who takes a close look at Catholicism. Yes, it takes discipline but I promise it’s worth it.
        S. Janaszak in Washington state.

    2. Paul Smallwood - June 9, 2015

      David, I am perplexed. You say you are a former “Calvinist”, yet you provide no credentials to back this up, unless I didn’t look in the right place. Wheaton and Trinity Evangelical are hardly hotbeds of Reformed theology let alone Calvinism. If your childhood church expoused “born again ism” that is, if anything, contra to Calvinism and definitely is foreign to Reformed theology. You may have been a “Calvinist” but it must have been a very strange version of it. I just don’t see your Calvinist credentials anywhere in your bio. Perhaps I missed something.

      1. Sam - September 22, 2015

        Dr Anders could certainly answer this better than I, but I did pick up that his youth was spent in the PCA (Presbyterian Church in America), a pretty hard-core Calvinist offshoot of the Presbyterian Church:
        http://www.pcanet.org/beliefs/

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